Breitbart News caught up with Cenk Uygur, host of the popular progressive video newscast The Young Turks, at the Republican National Convention to get his perspective on the state of the Democrats now that Hillary Clinton is the presumptive nominee. Uygur supported Bernie Sanders in the primaries, and although he said he would vote for Clinton against Republican Donald Trump, he recognizes that under Hillary Clinton, the Democrats now are the establishment.

The conversation went as follows:

LEE: So we’re talking to Cenk from The Young Turks, and you’re not known as an establishment; you’re a Democrat. But you’re not known as an establishment Democrat. You hold everybody’s feet to the fire. Can you explain to our conservative base at Breitbart- what are the dynamics like right now? You’re a Bernie supporter.

CENK: Yep.

LEE: What’s it like broadly on the left right now, between Bernie and Hillary supporters?

CENK: Well, I think you guys would like this. I actually think the Democrats have become more pro-establishment than the Republicans. I think for as long as I’ve been alive, the Republicans have been more of an establishment party. Uh, but now it’s the Democrats. And so Trump was able to beat the establishment on the right wing, but Hillary Clinton won, and there is no more establishment candidate than Hillary Clinton.

LEE: And, there’s a lot of people right now who may have been Trump people, excuse me, may have been Cruz people who are going, “I don’t know if I’m gonna vote for Trump.” Are you saying the same thing on the left with Bernie people who are on the fence about Hillary?

CENK: Yeah, I certainly am seeing that in some of them. It’s a mixed bag, as it is on the right. You know, some Cruz people say, “Oh yeah, of course, I’ll vote for Trump over Clinton.” And some say, “No, I can’t ever vote for Trump.”

LEE: And is that something you’re personally – is that something you’re worried about? ‘Cause you’re clear: you want Hillary to win, correct?

CENK: Yes. Well, yes.

LEE: So is that something you’re concerned about? Are you concerned about, for example, Jill Stein being in the race?

CENK: I’m not concerned about it. Everybody’s got a right to be in the race. And I think it is a four-person race. And I think the media’s gonna start talking about it that way. And it’s not my job to get people to vote for Hillary Clinton. But if I’m in a swing state, and Jill Stein is at low numbers, and it could make a difference, I’d vote for Clinton over Trump because I don’t want Trump to be president–under any circumstances.

LEE: With that being said, you have been real critical of Hillary.

CENK: Oh yeah, yeah. I’m super critical of Hillary Clinton. And people say, “Oh, but that’s the lesser of two evils, and you don’t wanna vote for evil.” Well, no, it’s the lesser of two evils, right? I don’t want the more evil; I want the less evil. And so I’m clear-eyed on what I’m getting. I’m getting an establishment, no change candidate. But that’s better than the insane change that I think Donald Trump would bring.