Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky granted Latin American journalists their first audience with him since the Russian “special operation” to oust him began — published in the Argentine outlet Infobae on Thursday — addressing in detail growing tensions between himself and radical socialist Brazilian President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva.
Zelensky denied that he or his aides had prevented an in-person meeting between the two during their mutual attendance at the G7 summit in Japan last month, apparently blaming Lula for the snub that the Brazilian president declared himself “upset” by. The Ukrainian president also questioned Lula’s refusal to support an international tribunal for Russian war crimes, stating that, if meeting Lula in person, he would ask his Brazilian counterpart if he thinks “a murderer should be convicted and go to jail.”
Whether or not convicted criminals belong in jail is a sensitive topic for Lula, a convicted felon sentenced — after multiple appeals — in 2019 to over two decades in prison for corrupt acts during his first two tenures in office. Lula appeared on the ballot for the 2022 presidential election only after the country’s highest court, the Supreme Federal Tribunal (STF), overturned his conviction on the grounds that the first court to process the allegations did not have jurisdiction. The STF did not present any exonerating evidence or proclaim Lula innocent of his crimes.
Lula’s legal woes began far before Zelensky’s political career; the former comedian became president after running for office in 2019, his first entry into politics. Their apparent mutual disdain stems from comments Lula made as a presidential candidate last year, dismissing Zelensky as a “nice comedian” who the world should not take seriously.
Under Lula, Brazil greatly enhanced bilateral ties with Russia and helped establish the BRICS coalition — an economic and political pact named after members Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa. In his new iteration as president, Lula has demanded a role in negotiations to end the Russian invasion of Ukraine but opposed sanctions on Russia and avoided condemning the invasion.
Speaking to Infobae in an interview published Thursday, Zelensky insisted that he was “interested” in meeting Lula in person and that the failure of such a meeting to take place was not Ukraine’s fault.
Zelensky said of Lula:
I am interested and have offered to meet him in any format. I have invited the president many times, I have invited him to visit Ukraine. Our teams were in contact when I was meeting with the governments of Spain and Portugal and he was in Europe. I thought to take advantage of that moment because the distance was less and I wanted him to find a moment of his time.
“Then I was in various meetings at the G7 [in Hiroshima, Japan] and someone even said that we didn’t want to meet him. That is not true,” Zelensky insisted.
“We are civilized people. We have to talk about this, but to talk there needs to be a desire,” Zelensky continued. “Something didn’t work at the G7, I don’t want to go into details, but the problem definitely did not come from our side.”
Lula, discussing the issue last month, appeared to lay the blame squarely with Zelensky.
“I had a bilateral meeting with Ukraine here in this hall at 3:15 p.m.,” Lula explained to reporters at the time. “We waited and kept getting information that they were delayed. So then I met with the president of Vietnam.”
“When the president of Vietnam left, the president of Ukraine did not appear. He assuredly had other commitments and couldn’t come here. That was, unfortunately, what happened,” the president insisted.
Asked about the meeting and whether he was disappointed to miss a chance to talk to Lula, Zelensky smirked and said, “I think it disappointed him.”
“I wasn’t disappointed, I was upset,” Lula said following the Ukrainian president’s comments. “Zelensky is a grown-up. He knows what he’s doing.”
Zelensky also addressed Lula’s rejection of Ukrainian calls for the establishment of an international tribunal to process Russian war criminals, appearing to mock Lula for “trying to be original” with his failure to support the proposal.
“I think President Lula is trying to be original in this regard and I think we should give him that opportunity, no? We could ask ourselves very simple questions,” Zelensky told Infobae. “First: does the president of Brazil think that a murderer should be convicted and go to prison? I think that if the president had an opportunity, he would say yes.”
“Will he find time to answer that question?” Zelensky continued. “Well, he didn’t find time to meet me, but maybe he will respond to that question if he finds the time.”
The Ukrainian president went on to state that there are thousands of “murdered people” in Ukraine, and their killers should be imprisoned.
“If President Lula wants to be original, he could say that the tribunal that Ukraine proposes is not adequate, but then President Lula has to say, ‘I know how to put murderers behind bars without the need of a tribunal,'” Zelensky concluded, “and Ukraine will be delighted to receive this advice from President Lula on how to accelerate the trials to put the Kremlin murderers behind bars.”
“We are always in favor of any innovation in the sense of application of the law,” he added.
Zelensky has largely ignored Lula’s insistence on Brazil playing a role in mediation between Russia and Ukraine since Lula’s inauguration in January. While he has not publicly commented on Lula’s remarks last year, the two appear to have poisoned hopes of cordial relations between the South American giant and Kyiv.
“I see the President of Ukraine, speaking on television, being applauded, getting a standing ovation by all the [European] parliamentarians,” Lula told Time magazine while campaigning last year. “This guy is as responsible as Putin for the war. Because in the war, there’s not just one person guilty.”
“You are encouraging this guy [Zelensky], and then he thinks he is the cherry on your cake. We should be having a serious conversation,” Lula continued. “OK, you were a nice comedian. But let us not make war for you to show up on TV.”
Elsewhere in his conversation this week, Zelensky lamented that Ukraine does not have strong diplomatic bonds with any Latin American states, calling it a “lost opportunity” of the post-Soviet era.
“I as a citizen also understand that we have lot some powerful ties with representatives of Latin America, with various Latin American countries, especially after independence,” he said. “It was a lost opportunity, lost time, and Russia took advantage. Russia has a powerful presence in Africa, in Latin America, and everywhere, and honestly, it was very powerful in Europe.”
The Ukrainian president offered to visit any Latin American country that would have him in order to reverse the momentum against friendly ties.
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