Tuesday on MSNBC’s “Hardball,” host Chris Matthews and his panel discussed an article from Axios highlighting a meeting between House Freedom Caucus chairman Rep. Mark Meadows (R-NC) and Breitbart’s Steve Bannon and Matthew Boyle earlier this week at the Breitbart Embassy.
Matthews’ panel consisted of Axios’ Jonathan Swan, Reuters’ Ayesha Rascoe and U.S. News and World Report’s David Catanese.
Transcript as follows:
MATTHEWS: Welcome back to HARDBALL.
President Trump is entering a very dangerous autumn. Steve Bannon, the president’s former chief strategist, has met with conservative U.S. Congressman Mark Meadows who is chairman of the House Freedom Caucus.
According to the Website “Axios”, the two plotted for nearly two hours on the agenda for the month ahead, with an emphasis on the Breitbart-Freedom Caucus war against the Republican leadership on multiple fronts.
And one source told NBC News that the GOP should brace for a, quote, “Bloody September”.
For now, I’m joined by Jonathan Swan, national political reporter for “Axios”, Ayesha Roscoe, White House correspondent for “Reuters”, and David Catanese, who’s senior politics writer for “U.S. News & World Report”.
In order, down the row here — how ballistic is this going to get? Forget about North Korea if you can for five minutes. How ballistic — how crazy is it going to get if Steve Bannon hooks up, links up with the Freedom Caucus and decides that he’s going to demolish anything Trump tries to do in trying to get Harvey relief, with debt ceiling, any clever gain in the leadership polls, he’s going to blow it apart.
JONATHAN SWAN, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, AXIOS: Two hours in the “Breitbart” embassy with Matt Boyle, who is probably the most feral political reporter in Washington, Steve Bannon —
MATTHEWS: What does feral mean?
SWAN: Feral means off the chain. He is truly —
MATTHEWS: What animal does that refer to?
SWAN: What’s the fiercest attack dog that you know, Chris?
MATTHEWS: What species of animal is that, feral?
SWAN: Probably a species we haven’t seen in actual —
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: So you think they’re dangerous?
SWAN: I think that they’re going to fight leadership based on the conversation they had on Monday, on every turn.
MATTHEWS: OK. Jump ball here, what is the advantage of blowing up everything so the government doesn’t pay its bills? The government doesn’t continue to operate. Nothing gets — nobody gets help down in Harvey, because of Hurricane Harvey, nothing happens. Who benefits from that?
AYESHA RASCOE, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, REUTERS: Nobody.
MATTHEWS: Besides the Democrats I suppose in a weird way?
RASCOE: Well, that’s the thing, nobody benefits. I mean, you always get these terms with Steve Bannon, Bloody September. It’s always like some war movie, but there are real things at stake here.
And the question is, what do you get from just not getting anything done?
MATTHEWS: What’s the answer?
RASCOE: I mean, I guess you get points for the Freedom Caucus. You can say you stirred up your base. Other than that, there seemed like there will be some repercussions for what they do.
DAVID CATANESE, SENIOR POLITICS WRITER, U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT: You get standing on principle. Some of these guys believe this. They want spending cuts. They want structural reform, entitlement reform, things that are important to fiscal conservatives, deficit hawks, guys who ran on this going back to the Tea Party years in 2010 promised this, instead of just continuing on raise the debt ceiling.
Some of these guys do believe it but I do think there’s going to be the Bannon and Trump factor and who are they going to be more loyal to, the president or Steve —
MATTHEWS: You’re laughing.
CATANESE: Oh, I’m not laughing.
MATTHEWS: You are. You’re laughing. There are people out there who are enjoying absolute chaos.
CATANESE: They proved their force in the health care debate, right? Meadows was the main player and he was the guy that Trump had to deal with trying to get votes. They barely got it through the House. Then it obviously didn’t work through the Senate.
So, I think he is going to be —
MATTHEWS: OK, let’s get the numbers here. About 33 percent in all the polls say they’re sticking with Trump through hell and high water. We get that. I know the strategy, I think it is, is hold that 33 percent and then add 10 percent by beating the heck out of whoever he runs in two or three years, just to humiliate little — no, not little Richard.
CATANESE: Little Marco.
MATTHEWS: Little Marco, Little Richard was a musician.
Just trashing them, he figures he can win that way. But what’s in it for the country when the 33 percent shrinks even further? I mean, the Freedom Caucus, how many do they represent if they blow up everything?
In other words, the government becomes a deadbeat. The United States — the dollar doesn’t mean anything. Our debt doesn’t mean anything. It’s a joke. We become a banana republic, not to knock banana republics. Who benefits from that?
RASCOE: Well, I think when you talk about the health care debate. That’s the perfect example. You have the Freedom Caucus and they drove that health care bill further and further to the right and made it more and more conservative. And then you didn’t get anything.
And that issue is still ongoing. We’re not talking about health care. But that’s not because the issue has been solved.
MATTHEWS: Yes.
RASCOE: There’s just not support to get it done.
MATTHEWS: Who’s happy about how that was left?
SWAN: Chris, they can’t —
MATTHEWS: You’re right.
SWAN: I think what we’re going to see over the next month is a governing majority made up of Republican leadership, moderates and Democrats. Now, that’s going to hurt Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnell politically. Trump is not going to be happy about it. But that’s what you’re going to see.
MATTHEWS: That’s not going to happen.
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: In other words, no more Hastert Rule. Just get Democrats —
(CROSSTALK)
SWAN: It will be a heavy Democrat bill.
MATTHEWS: OK. We’ll see. By the way, you said Democrat. Not Democratic. Is it an adjective or a noun?
SWAN: You’re American. You should tell me.
MATTHEWS: OK, thank you. The roundtable is sticking with us. And up next — it’s Democratic. These three will tell me something I don’t know. Be right back.
MATTHEWS: Well, we continue to monitor protests all around the country in response to the president’s decision to end the program that has protected hundreds of thousands of so-called DREAMers.
Earlier today, thousands took to the streets in cities from coast to coast. In New York City, dozens were arrested in protest in front of Trump Tower. There you go.
And we’ll be right back.
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