Wednesday on MSNBC, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani defended Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump and Breitbart News against network host Stephanie Ruhle’s charges of racism.

Partial transcript as follows:

RUHLE: I’ve also never seen the hate and the racism out of so many people who are saying we’re going to—

GIULIANI: There’s no racism.

RUHLE:  You don’t think Breitbart News —

GIULIANI: Breitbart News is not running for office.

RUHLE:  But Steven Bannon is the architect of Donald Trump’s campaign. What do you believe Breitbart represents?

GIULIANI: Nobody runs Donald Trump’s campaign but Donald Trump. For all the stuff you’re throwing around, racist, the last thing in the world Donald Trump is a racist. I’ve known him for 28 years. The man likes white people, he likes black people, he likes Hispanic people, he plays golf with them. He opened up the first club in Palm Beach that allowed Jewish people, Italian people like me who couldn’t get into those clubs.

RUHLE: Can you say that Steven Bannon doesn’t run his campaign?

GIULIANI: Donald Trump runs Donald Trump’s campaign.

RUHLE: What is he doing paying Steven Bannon?

GIULIANI: There are a lot of people who do different things. To say Donald Trump is a racist is outrageous. To call anybody a racist is outrageous.

RUHLE: Hold on, there are people you can call racist.

GIULIANI: You can’t call him racist. The man has done more for minorities over the last 30 years in terms of opening facilities for them, hiring them, promoting them, promoting the first woman to be the head of a construction company.

RUHLE: Can you say then —

GIULIANI: Taking a guy who began as a caddy who’s now making a couple million dollars a year running his technology. I mean, this is a guy who has helped people, black people, white people. He doesn’t see people that way. It’s Hillary Clinton who says to us we all have implicit bias who I believe has a problem. She should look in the mirror if she thinks we all have implicit bias. Hillary, I have news for you. I don’t. Maybe you do, I have no racial guilt. Not a single bit of it, which is why I’m willing to tell the truth about black crime and what has to be done about it. There is no mayor in the history of the city to save more black lives than me, nobody even close.

RUHLE: Can you say that Breitbart News doesn’t have racist views and the CEO of Breitbart News is currently running Donald Trump’s campaign?

GIULIANI: Donald Trump is running Donald Trump’s campaign.

RUHLE: Then what is Steven Bannon doing?

GIULIANI: Breitbart News has its own point of view. Look, your station has its own point of view. Do you want me to tell you what that is? You don’t really want to know.

RUHLE: Of course I want to know.

GIULIANI: Your station is completely left wing and totally anti-Trump and totally anti-Republican with one or two exceptions. I’m one of the few Republicans that will come on here because we don’t think we get anywhere near fair treatment on this station.

RUHLE: Do you think I’ve treated you fairly?

GIULIANI: I believe that this station is completely left wing oriented and very, very anti-Republican.

RUHLE: Do you think that I have treated you fairly?

GIULIANI: I say there are exceptions. You gave me a chance to answer the question. I appreciate that. You have some people on this station that are flying off the wall.

RUHLE: You don’t think there are some people who are flying off the wall over at Fox?

GIULIANI: Not as bad as this.

RUHLE: All right.

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