Breitbart News spoke with presidential hopeful Vivek Ramaswamy on Wednesday, and he stressed, historically speaking, that “the Second Amendment was critical to securing the rest of the civil rights” for black Americans.

He made this statement in the context of discussing an exchange between himself and Don Lemon, which occurred last week and centered on black Americans and civil rights.

Ramaswamy told Breitbart News, “What made Lemon’s head explode–and I was on set with him, and I watched the thought process happen in his mind–was that I ran counter to his belief that civil rights equals good and Second Amendment equals bad. So when I explained to him that as a matter of history, it actually turns out that black people in this country did not get their civil rights secured until their Second Amendment freedoms were secured. It was actually in Dred Scott, prior to the Civil Warthat the chief justice said the reason black people could not be allowed to be citizens is because that would give them the right to own guns. So as it turns out, an important part of the Civil War, black citizenship, and civil rights is having the ability to see those rights secured by the Second Amendment.”

He noted, “That sent Lemon into a tailspin because that combines two concepts that, to him, are opposed: civil rights and the Second Amendment. He reacted as many on the left would, thinking civil rights are good, the Second Amendment is bad, failing to realize that the Second Amendment is a requirement for all the other amendments and all the other freedoms we enjoy.”

Ramaswamy told Breitbart News, “Part of why I go on these shows and talk on college campuses, etc., is because I think that not everyone on the left or outside the conservative movement is like Don Lemon. In fact, most people aren’t like him. Most people are open-minded to reason and argument if we can actually give it to them.”

AWR Hawkins is an award-winning Second Amendment columnist for Breitbart News and the writer/curator of Down Range with AWR Hawkins, a weekly newsletter focused on all things Second Amendment, also for Breitbart News. He is the political analyst for Armed American Radio and a Turning Point USA Ambassador. AWR Hawkins holds a PhD in Military History, with a focus on the Vietnam War (brown water navy), U.S. Navy since Inception, the Civil War, and Early Modern Europe. Follow him on Instagram: @awr_hawkins. You can sign up to get Down Range at breitbart.com/downrange. Reach him directly at awrhawkins@breitbart.com.